and could he be one of the initiators who started the collapse of our society and the oppression of women's wisdom? I asked after reading the below mentioned article
From the book
Sufism and Transpersonal Psychology
Mustafa Merter, M.D
If we think that Sigmund Freud (Besides Karl Marx and C.Darwin) was a scientific figure who shaped the modern era’s world view, formed the psychological construction of the age and developed the “civilization of psychoanalysis” we can estimate how much damage his pessimist, human degrading and so called scientific and speculative derangement has done. If we want to understand the dynamics of the “modern consumerist” society which is headed towards self-destruction and find solutions we have to understand the seeds these thinkers sowed.
While reading these lines it is not possible to say “who cares about Freud?” unfortunately. Freud and psychoanalysis, be it Freudian or not, has deeply effected the Western world’s thought construction and its view about the world and mankind. This effect is not limited only with the western world. It spreads to the whole world especially with the help of Hollywood film industry and the media.
For example let’s give some examples about Freud’s so called insufficiency of woman, -about the “modern, contemporary, free” woman.
As Freud suggested a miserable woman who has believed or has been led to believe that she has an inherent insufficiency by birth (penis envy!) will try to overcome this inadequacy all her life. She can do it in two ways.
If a woman, against her inherent nature, pursues material power, effectiveness, position (rank) and authority in an extreme manner she will unknowingly become “ manlike”, will turn in to a caricature of man. Because she has lost her noble qualities, like her wisdom, creativity, intuitiveness and compassion by living a manlike existence she gradually becomes distant from her real nature and unknowingly betrays it. ( to understand what I mean you can reflect on the women TV announcers on western news channels)
As a result of this, “emancipated”, “manlike women” are gradually increasing in number in the Western world and the US. This “manlike woman” trying to overcome men in every field attempts to compensate her complex of not having a penis by her manly achievements in the world of men.
For these women, man-woman relationships turn into a compulsory “satisfaction of the impulses”. Because she betrays her inherent nature she hates both herself and the men. Some of them choose a bisexual way of life. Anonymous/promiscuous sexuality, one night stands, temporary relationships without any commitment, with a compulsive/impulsive reflex are all done for “relief”. Long-term and consistent relationships feels boring, restricting and oppressive. Because normal sexuality will not be satisfying after a while, they resort to pervert ways of sexuality. Sadism, masochism, fetishism, group sex, stimulant drug use are all pursuits to add spice to this monotony. For the woman who has been prisoned on this level because she is not able to live the elegant and inherent emotions, all these are a struggle for salvation. If she terribly wants a child she can go to a bar, choose a “stallion man” become pregnant and deliberately does not tell the child who his/her father is. She does not tell because she does not want to take the responsibility of the relationship. This exteremely egoist attitude (I do not know which moral code is in harmony with this approach of leaving a child without a father ) which began in California and then spread to the whole world is not a way of life that is shared by a small group of people anymore but a pervert way of behavior that is gradually expanding in the world. Unfortunately the “psychoanalysis civilization” we live in has detached woman from her essential qualities-values and castrated her.
This “worthless woman” who is gradually becoming manlike, starts to expose herself in the struggle of becoming valuable. With her inherent “insufficiency” (according to Freud) woman, in the name of becoming valuable should expose her femininity excessively, should try to be honorable by exposing her body’s private parts in the world of men. In fact a tragic process is going on here regarding the human values. In the name of becoming valuable, the so called independent/free “contemporary” woman of the Western world, unknowingly becomes a sex object and degrades to a level where she “markets” her body. And the worst is, at the expense of ignoring her essence, she becomes distant to her soul and is alienated to herself.
The nude girls on the advertisement industry’s billboards and TV are tragic examples. Usually when it is not a significant other or a close relative we do not reflect on it and ignore the importance of the issue by a simple defense mechanism. But this attitude is a big mistake and unjust.
Degraded to a level of an object, saperated form her naturalness with make up and surgery, exposing her most sacred parts like flesh in a butcher’s window, the sex object “modern/contemporary” woman is in fact a tragedy for humankind. Even tough “they” don’t know or have forgotten that they know, we know what a woman is as it is expressed in the lines of Rumi.
A woman is the light of God, not a date. She is like the creator, not the created!”
(Rumi, Mathnavi, p.195. MEB Publications)
Psychoanalysis and dream interpretation are vitally important approaches regarding the psychological health of societies. The analysis of human psyche is a very important issue and it can not be analyzed by palliative and speculative methods. A wrong approach may shake the foundations of a society and the building may collapse. As we will mention at the end of the book the “California Syndrome” may dominate the whole world.
From the book
Sufism and Transpersonal Psychology
Mustafa Merter, M.D
If we think that Sigmund Freud (Besides Karl Marx and C.Darwin) was a scientific figure who shaped the modern era’s world view, formed the psychological construction of the age and developed the “civilization of psychoanalysis” we can estimate how much damage his pessimist, human degrading and so called scientific and speculative derangement has done. If we want to understand the dynamics of the “modern consumerist” society which is headed towards self-destruction and find solutions we have to understand the seeds these thinkers sowed.
While reading these lines it is not possible to say “who cares about Freud?” unfortunately. Freud and psychoanalysis, be it Freudian or not, has deeply effected the Western world’s thought construction and its view about the world and mankind. This effect is not limited only with the western world. It spreads to the whole world especially with the help of Hollywood film industry and the media.
For example let’s give some examples about Freud’s so called insufficiency of woman, -about the “modern, contemporary, free” woman.
As Freud suggested a miserable woman who has believed or has been led to believe that she has an inherent insufficiency by birth (penis envy!) will try to overcome this inadequacy all her life. She can do it in two ways.
If a woman, against her inherent nature, pursues material power, effectiveness, position (rank) and authority in an extreme manner she will unknowingly become “ manlike”, will turn in to a caricature of man. Because she has lost her noble qualities, like her wisdom, creativity, intuitiveness and compassion by living a manlike existence she gradually becomes distant from her real nature and unknowingly betrays it. ( to understand what I mean you can reflect on the women TV announcers on western news channels)
As a result of this, “emancipated”, “manlike women” are gradually increasing in number in the Western world and the US. This “manlike woman” trying to overcome men in every field attempts to compensate her complex of not having a penis by her manly achievements in the world of men.
For these women, man-woman relationships turn into a compulsory “satisfaction of the impulses”. Because she betrays her inherent nature she hates both herself and the men. Some of them choose a bisexual way of life. Anonymous/promiscuous sexuality, one night stands, temporary relationships without any commitment, with a compulsive/impulsive reflex are all done for “relief”. Long-term and consistent relationships feels boring, restricting and oppressive. Because normal sexuality will not be satisfying after a while, they resort to pervert ways of sexuality. Sadism, masochism, fetishism, group sex, stimulant drug use are all pursuits to add spice to this monotony. For the woman who has been prisoned on this level because she is not able to live the elegant and inherent emotions, all these are a struggle for salvation. If she terribly wants a child she can go to a bar, choose a “stallion man” become pregnant and deliberately does not tell the child who his/her father is. She does not tell because she does not want to take the responsibility of the relationship. This exteremely egoist attitude (I do not know which moral code is in harmony with this approach of leaving a child without a father ) which began in California and then spread to the whole world is not a way of life that is shared by a small group of people anymore but a pervert way of behavior that is gradually expanding in the world. Unfortunately the “psychoanalysis civilization” we live in has detached woman from her essential qualities-values and castrated her.
This “worthless woman” who is gradually becoming manlike, starts to expose herself in the struggle of becoming valuable. With her inherent “insufficiency” (according to Freud) woman, in the name of becoming valuable should expose her femininity excessively, should try to be honorable by exposing her body’s private parts in the world of men. In fact a tragic process is going on here regarding the human values. In the name of becoming valuable, the so called independent/free “contemporary” woman of the Western world, unknowingly becomes a sex object and degrades to a level where she “markets” her body. And the worst is, at the expense of ignoring her essence, she becomes distant to her soul and is alienated to herself.
The nude girls on the advertisement industry’s billboards and TV are tragic examples. Usually when it is not a significant other or a close relative we do not reflect on it and ignore the importance of the issue by a simple defense mechanism. But this attitude is a big mistake and unjust.
Degraded to a level of an object, saperated form her naturalness with make up and surgery, exposing her most sacred parts like flesh in a butcher’s window, the sex object “modern/contemporary” woman is in fact a tragedy for humankind. Even tough “they” don’t know or have forgotten that they know, we know what a woman is as it is expressed in the lines of Rumi.
A woman is the light of God, not a date. She is like the creator, not the created!”
(Rumi, Mathnavi, p.195. MEB Publications)
Psychoanalysis and dream interpretation are vitally important approaches regarding the psychological health of societies. The analysis of human psyche is a very important issue and it can not be analyzed by palliative and speculative methods. A wrong approach may shake the foundations of a society and the building may collapse. As we will mention at the end of the book the “California Syndrome” may dominate the whole world.
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Re: Was Freud wrong about women?
Tue, June 26, 2007 - 11:14 PMHi Ronin,
Welcome! I appreciate your posting this thoughtful and compelling piece. I would like to take a moment to make a few comments on it (interspersed), if I may. Your responses are welcome!
<<"As Freud suggested a miserable woman who has believed or has been led to believe that she has an inherent insufficiency by birth (penis envy!) will try to overcome this inadequacy all her life.">>
This is a common interpretation and, IMHO, a tragic MIS-reading of Freud's work. Freud may have coined the term of "penis envy," but he did NOT create the condition. The Victorian Viennese culture on which Freud was basing most of his theories was extremely male dominated and male-oriented. There were very select and reserved roles and positions provided to women and she was restricted from explore others. this, of course, may lead to a male jealousy; or an ENVY of that which has placed him that that cultural positioning of power: the penis. It is only natural (human!) to want or desire what you can't have and, in Freud's day (much in the same way it is in OUR day, but less so), males not only possess a penis (i.e., male position), but a vagina (by proxy of the female who is subordinated to his male position).
<<"Because she has lost her noble qualities, like her wisdom, creativity, intuitiveness and compassion by living a manlike existence she gradually becomes distant from her real nature and unknowingly betrays it. ( to understand what I mean you can reflect on the women TV announcers on western news channels)">>
(Most of whom get the job for their characteristically UNmale qualities -- their feminine attractiveness & beauty, ability to read the teleprompter in what is usually considered the most soothing of voices, known as the 'contralto', but all that's besides the point). I echo the good Doktor who quoted James Brown who said, "It's a man's world." and indeed it is. I might even go a step farther and quote John Lennon who said (shockingly to his contemporaries), "Woman is the nigger of the world."
<<As a result of this, “emancipated”, “manlike women” are gradually increasing in number in the Western world and the US. This “manlike woman” trying to overcome men in every field attempts to compensate her complex of not having a penis by her manly achievements in the world of men.>>
And who could blame her for wanting to succeed in the face of adversity. I say, "You go girl!" and might even throw in a few snaps while I'm at it. ;-)
<<"For the woman who has been prisoned on this level because she is not able to live the elegant and inherent emotions, all these are a struggle for salvation. If she terribly wants a child she can go to a bar, choose a “stallion man” become pregnant and deliberately does not tell the child who his/her father is. She does not tell because she does not want to take the responsibility of the relationship. This exteremely egoist attitude (I do not know which moral code is in harmony with this approach of leaving a child without a father ) which began in California and then spread to the whole world is not a way of life that is shared by a small group of people anymore but a pervert way of behavior that is gradually expanding in the world.>>
Personally, I do not SEE this type of intentional behavior as a "general condition" as the above seems to paint it. The cultural situation (as with most cultural situations) does not tend to really work well for ANYONE living within it (male OR female) excepting those at the very top of the food chain, who in turn usually have little regard for how they got there and what to do with the power that they have. But again, I cheer for the woman (or Any minority group) who takes their destiny by the balls (AHEM, as it were), and lives their life rather than allowing it to live THEM. Capisce?
>> Unfortunately the “psychoanalysis civilization” we live in has detached woman from her essential qualities-values and castrated her.>>
Again, this is the exact opposite reading of Freud that's so tragically prevalent in the culture. Ever read "Civilization and Its Discontents?" Try to get it in the original German, or find a good translation. Bruno Bettelheim has done some well-deserved justice to what has otherwise been a pisspoor translation of Freud's work into English. In it, he writes about the whole of civilization itself has become neurotic and that psychoanalysis was an initial step towards conceptualizing and formalizing the ways in which its neuroses could be understood and eventually brought under some domain of self-determined agency. Which is NOT the same as inflicting the neuroses themselves.
<<In fact a tragic process is going on here regarding the human values. In the name of becoming valuable, the so called independent/free “contemporary” woman of the Western world, unknowingly becomes a sex object and degrades to a level where she “markets” her body. And the worst is, at the expense of ignoring her essence, she becomes distant to her soul and is alienated to herself.>>
I think that, if you look around, you'll see that the cultural condition (against which Freud was actually attempting to analyize and critique!) actually strips men of their own dignity as well, and literally serves NO man or woman in any redeemable fashion, especially when taken into account the interdependence in which we all live. I think it's fascinating that this misunderstanding crosses all cultural boundaries in which, for example, the Muslim women are thought to be "repressed" in their society because they are "forced" to wear Burqas and to cover up their bodies. But when you actually consider the context in which that condition was made, it is out of the belief that there are, let's say, 10 spiritual "powers" to which humans have ready access and that 6 or 7 of them are available to women just by virtue of their feminity and beauty. Besides the fact that the work of a religious man can be damaged, if not completely annhilated by the glance at a beautiful woman (or so it was believed), the condition of having women "cover up" was their society's way of attempting to "even the playing field" so that they could live in harmony with one another.
Truly MILES away from any idea of repression or abuse (which, too, exists there as anywhee...)
<<The nude girls on the advertisement industry’s billboards and TV are tragic examples. >>
(Plenty of nude men in those ads, too, these days)
<<Degraded to a level of an object, saperated form her naturalness with make up and surgery, exposing her most sacred parts like flesh in a butcher’s window, the sex object “modern/contemporary” woman is in fact a tragedy for humankind. >>
No doubt about it that humans are disconnected from themselves, from their bodies, and from nature itself. And THIS, my friend, was the whole POINT of psychoanalysis from the very beginning!
<< A wrong approach may shake the foundations of a society and the building may collapse. As we will mention at the end of the book the “California Syndrome” may dominate the whole world.">>
And I hope you seriously consider what biases with which you are coming into this work so that you do not end up promulgating the type of limited and closed minded thinking you are attempting to alleviate.
Cheers!
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Re: Was Freud wrong about women?
Tue, August 7, 2007 - 12:33 AMI definitely feel the same way about the "flesh market" as you do, and I've experienced the "I'm going to be better at being a man than any man I know" phase, which has included bisexuality. I think this goes in more directions than you may have consciously mentioned in your email, however.
I think it is an unconscious struggle on the part of woman to push to regain the societal power that we once held as a gender, in matriarchal society. In other words, we're used to having the power, and now it's been displaced to the male gender (which in the grand scheme of things needs to happen just for balance sake)- so we're on the rampage to regain it. And much of female wisdom and strength comes from a very intuitive grasp of people's natures... knowing that we would need to act like a man in this new man's world, we then adopted his characteristics (albeit mostly unsuccessfully) to beat him at his own game.
The problem is that by espousing the male strengths, we are further devaluing our own feminine ones, which are equally powerful- just different. It's like the feminist of the 1980s who devalued the role of housewife and mother and went on to get a full-time job in the professional world, just to prove to herself that she was just as worthy as any man... to the detriment of the entire household, and to herself, as that kind of action is subconsciously devaluing the role of woman as housewife/mother which is one of the most influential and necessary roles to be played in raising children who are considered "successful" in the world.
I think that gender roles do not need to remain tied to physical genders... I think this conundrum has occurred because we are trying to evolve beyond being "trapped" by our genitals into these roles... I know many women who make better CEOs than mothers, and many men who are better nurturers than they are cutthroat stockbrokers... inadvertently I think these things are taking place to sort of re-establish these natural tendencies to be more fluid re: "gender roles", because it's simply just more healthy to leave it up to temperament rather than gender. Look back to the ancient Greeks and their bathhouses, and Sapphic poetry...
On a personal note, I am about to get my masters in transpersonal psychology, and I have been delving into the world of the Sufis for quite a while now, as my distant relative Robert Bly has been translating Hafiz and Kabir like it's the end of the world tomorrow, and Idries Shah has found that perfect balance of mystery and wisdom in his books... I would love to talk with you (and anyone else who's done similar armchair research) further about both of these subjects...
Everyone out there right now, please respond with your thoughts, as this is an issue that has been plaguing me for a while, and I think it would do us all some good to hear your insights...
